KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: confirmation battles. President-elect Donald Trump’s controversial cabinet picks are sending shockwaves through Washington and raising questions about how he will carry out his second administration.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI:
I don’t think it’s a serious nomination for the attorney general.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS:
I was shocked that he has been nominated.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER:
I have concerns that he can’t get across the finish line.
JOHN BOLTON:
It must be the worst nomination for a cabinet position in American history.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will the senate approve Mr. Trump’s picks? Plus: total control. Republicans take charge of both chambers of Congress, clearing a path for Mr. Trump to enact his policy plans.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We are going to raise an “America first” banner above this place.
SEN. JOHN THUNE:
We have a mandate from the American people.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
We should regard this election not merely as a defeat but more importantly as a challenge.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will Democrats operate with the GOP in control?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
Politics is tough, and it’s in many cases not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma. Joining me for insight and analysis are: Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS Newshour; Politico “Playbook” co-author Eugene Daniels; former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki; and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. President-elect Donald Trump is racing to assemble his cabinet, making it clear the most important qualification may be personal loyalty to him. Facing scrutiny: Trump’s selection of now-former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz to be attorney general. The House’s bipartisan ethics investigation into Gaetz most recently zeroing in on alleged illegal drug use, sexual misconduct with a minor, accepting improper gifts, obstruction and other allegations, but effectively ending this week after Gaetz resigned from Congress following Trump’s announcement. Gaetz has denied wrongdoing. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are calling on the committee to release its report before a confirmation hearing.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
The House Ethics report? Would you want to see it before voting on him?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN:
I don’t want there to be any limitation at all on what the Senate can consider.
REPORTER:
So you want to see it?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN:
Absolutely.
REPORTER:
Do you have any concerns about someone who’s been accused of sex trafficking possibly leading the Department of Justice?
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER:
I have concerns that he can’t get across the finish line, and we’re gonna spend a lot of political capital.
REPORTER:
Do you think the House Ethics Committee should release that report?
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER:
Yes, I do.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
House Speaker Mike Johnson initially said, quote, “The speaker is not involved with what happens in ethics,” but one day later, and after a visit with President-elect Trump at Mar-A-Lago, Johnson reversed course, saying he would “strongly” discourage the report’s release.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
It doesn’t follow our rules and tradition. There is a reason for that. We’d open a Pandora’s box. I don’t think that’s a healthy thing for the institution.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, Gaetz has been a fierce critic of the department he has now been tapped to lead, a department that investigated him for sex trafficking but did not charge him.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REP. MATT GAETZ:
I don’t care if it takes every second of our time and every ounce of our energy. We either get this government back on our side or we defund and get rid of—abolish the FBI, CDC, ATF, DOJ, every last one of ’em if they do not come to heel.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, several GOP sources have told NBC News that more than half of Senate Republicans, including some in senior leadership positions, are privately saying they don’t see a path for Gaetz to be confirmed and would not support him. Then there’s the nomination of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to run the Department of Health and Human Services. Kennedy now says he’s not against vaccines.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.:
I’m not going to take away anybody’s vaccines. I’ve never been an anti-vaccine.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Kennedy has frequently pushed false and misleading claims about vaccines, despite decades of medical studies that show vaccines are safe and effective. Kennedy even touted a false conspiracy theory that COVID was designed to target certain ethnicities.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.:
COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.
LEX FRIDMAN:
Can you name any vaccines you think are good?
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.:
I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they’re causing. There’s no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective.
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.:
I do believe that autism does come from vaccines.
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.:
A mountain of scientific study links autism to early vaccination with certain vaccines.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
According to the CDC, there is no evidence of any link between autism and vaccines, which protect children from contagious diseases like measles. Also under scrutiny: President-elect Trump’s pick for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, a former Fox News host and decorated combat veteran. Police in Monterey, California say he was investigated in 2017 for an alleged sexual assault after a gathering at a hotel hosting an event for Republican women. He was not arrested and no charges were filed. Hegseth’s attorney telling NBC News “It didn’t happen.” The Trump transition team saying quote, “Hegseth has vigorously denied any and all accusations, and no charges were filed. We look forward to his confirmation as United States secretary of defense.” Hegseth has also argued that women should not serve in combat roles.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SHAWN RYAN:
You don’t like women in combat?
PETE HEGSETH:
No.
SHAWN RYAN:
Why not?
PETE HEGSETH:
I love women service members who contribute amazingly, because everything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated, and complication in combat means casualties or worse.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, the Pentagon opened combat roles to women in 2016 and women have succeeded and excelled in those roles since then. And joining me now is Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma. Senator Mullin, welcome to Meet the Press.
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Thanks for having me on, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here. I want to start with former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz, who of course President-elect Trump, as we just said, announced this week was his pick for attorney general. You have said you trust Mr. Trump’s decision making in naming Gaetz, but you have been critical of Gaetz as well. Here’s a little bit of what you’ve had to say.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
We had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor, that all of us had walked away, of the girls that he had slept with. And he walked up to Ms. Kristi Noem, now Governor Kristi Noem, and he said, “Man, she’s a fine…” And you can put the B-word in place there. And this is the type of individual Matt Gaetz is.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
So senator, you clearly have questions about Matt Gaetz’s character. But do you believe that Matt Gaetz is qualified to serve as attorney general?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
You know, there’s no question that Matt Gaetz and I have had our differences. And that’s no secret. Moving forward, I do respect President Trump’s – the right to appoint these individuals. But underneath Article II, section II, Congress has to advise and consent. And Matt Gaetz is going to go through the same scrutiny as every other individual. And I’m going to give him a fair shot, just like every individual. And at the end of the day, the Senate has to confirm him. I do think it’s a very, very tough role. I’ve got a tough situation that I’ve got to set my personal opinions, and they’re really not opinions. I – I’ve got to set my personal situation with Matt to the side and look at the facts. If he’s qualified, he’s qualified. To be quite frank, I didn’t even know he was an attorney until after he was appointed Attorney General and I had to do my research on him. And I know that’s crazy, because I served with him. But I just never did the dig to find out actually his actual degree, what it was in.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and speaking of digging into his background, the House Ethics Committee was about to release the findings of its investigation into allegations of misconduct by former Congressman Gaetz. Of course, he abruptly resigned before that could happen. A number of your colleagues, including members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have said they would like to see that report. Should the House Ethics Committee release that report, senator?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Absolutely. And I believe the – I believe the Senate should have access to that. Now should it be released to the public or not? That’s – I guess that will be part of the negotiations. But that should be definitely part of our decision making. Once again, I go back to it, in Article II, Section II, in the Constitution, the Senate has to advise and consent these individuals. And in that process, we’re going to give Matt Gaetz the same chances we’ll give all President Trump’s nominees. And by the way, I do believe that President Trump has the ability to pick some really, really good people. You can see why he’s been successful in business, why he was successful in running his campaign, because he surrounds himself with the right people. So I have no doubt that President Trump believes that Matt Gaetz is the right person to do the right job. But at the same time, the background of Matt Gaetz does matter. And what the decisions that the Senate makes has to be within our boundaries of the constitutional authority that we have. And we will do our due diligence there with – and I’ll say this, Matt will be treated the same as every nominee out there from myself and every other senator out there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you say background matters. I want to ask you about his views. Here’s a little bit of what Matt Gaetz had to say last year about the very law enforcement agencies that he is poised to be tapped to oversee. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REP. MATT GAETZ:
We either get this government back on our side, or we defund and get rid of – abolish, the FBI, CDC, ATF, DOJ, every last one of them, if they do not come to heel.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you support getting rid of the FBI, the DOJ, under any circumstances?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
No, I – I actually agree with what Matt was saying there, as hard as that is for me to say that, I actually agree with him. Because what he’s saying is, either these are going to come to the side of the American people and quit playing politics. The DOJ and the FBI has been politicized. There’s no question about it. We’ve seen what they’ve done to President Trump, we’ve seen the attacks that they continue to go after him with. The DOJ is 100% weaponized. You saw the FBI and the fake Russia hoax. You saw the FBI shielding the Biden family and shielding the laptop from the American people during the election. If they don’t want to come back and do their job, and their job is to keep America safe, to watch over America’s freedom, through DOJ, making sure the American justice system is running smoothly, and leaving politics out of it. But they haven’t lately. And if they don’t want to come back and get focused on what the American people’s mandate was for them, then we do need to revamp the system and say, “Hey, maybe we’ve got it wrong.” So I don’t disagree with what Matt was saying there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, worth noting, of course, Hunter Biden has now been convicted on federal charges. The charges that were brought against President-elect Trump were brought by —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– individual grand juries, so let me —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
But keep in mind, we’ve got to go through a process to get there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you broadly though, do you support the president-elect telling his attorney general to prosecute, to go after people he considers to be his political enemies?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
The president didn’t say that. That’s – that’s being taken completely out of context. And President Trump hasn’t been the one that weaponized the DOJ to go after his political enemies. President Trump did not do that when he was in office the first four years. He could have clearly done that against the Clintons if he wanted to. He didn’t. Who did weaponize the DOJ was the Biden administration. We saw them continuously going after President Trump, treating him completely different. Let’s go think about the classified records that was kept at Mar-a-Lago versus the classified documents that was kept in the garage of Biden and how the different reports read. And it’s no question they were treated different. Now who has weaponized the political – or the DOJ is the Democrats. And no one can deny what they did to President Trump with four years during Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, it’s worth noting there’s absolutely no evidence that President Biden had anything to do with the federal charges brought against President-elect Trump. But are you comfortable —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Garland was appointed by President Trump –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you comfortable with law enforcement agencies —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
– or by President Biden. And there is no question that the White House was informed about what was happening there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Senator, you have said we’re too good of a country to have the Justice Department to go after political opponents. Are you comfortable —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Agreed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– with the DOJ doing exactly what you’re saying you oppose?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
If the DOJ is willing to take a hard look at themselves and say, “Hey, we got it wrong. There’s some leadership positions that have to change. The people that made these decisions have to go.” And get the DOJ focused on what their priorities are supposed to be. And that’s to be making sure the Constitution of the United States is equal for every person out there. And if the DOJ is willing to do that and capable of doing that, and they did it for decades, by the way, for decades. If they’re able to get back and say, “Hey, we got it wrong,” and admit wrong, then hey, yeah, let’s do it. I tell people all the time, I’ve never fired a single individual for making a mistake. I will fire you if you can’t admit that you made a mistake. And the DOJ has made multiple mistakes and so has the FBI.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, and again, Senator, let me just ask you the bottom line here. Have you decided at this point whether you’re going to vote for Matt Gaetz?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Oh, absolutely not. I haven’t made a decision for – who I’m going to vote for with any one of the nominations. As I said, I’m going to treat everybody the same and do my constitutional duty. And that is to go through advise and consent. And that means background, that means we’re going to be doing everything we can to verify the individuals, know who they are, and put them in the best place to succeed to put America first. And I understand the American people, we have an agenda and a mandate for the American people, because President Trump won the popular vote and overwhelmingly the electoral vote. And they want to have a new direction for this country. And we agree with that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you about some of these other picks. You’re of course a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, which will hold confirmation hearings into Trump’s pick for defense secretary, Fox News host Pete Hegseth. You said on Thursday you’re absolutely planning to vote for him. But since then, allegations of sexual assault in 2017 have surfaced, including that he paid the accuser as part of a non-disclosure agreement, senator, that’s according to documents obtained by The Washington Post. Mr. Hegseth’s attorney, we want to say, denied the allegations of misconduct. He was never charged. But do you think that this matter could sink Pete Hegseth’s confirmation?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
It could. But let me tell you about Pete, is he’s an individual that served 20 years in the service, is an honorable discharged veteran, who served as a combat individual, that walked into Afghanistan and Iraq, has two Bronze Stars, highly decorated combat veteran, that is a civilian today. He’s a major. And he fits the role of defense – secretary of defense. I think he’s a good pick. But once again, as allegations come out, we’ll figure out if, as the Senate moves forward with the advise and consent to the President of the United States and doing our constitutional duties, we’ll figure out if he can get confirmed or not. And I do think that Pete’s a good pick for this position.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just to follow up with you, because you had said you absolutely planned to vote for him, do you still absolutely plan to vote for him?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Well, I do. As of right now, I’ll start with yes. But can I be moved off of that? I’m sure. Everybody starts at some point. Some people start at dead even, some people start at a yes, some people start at a no. But I start at a yes and it’s going to take some movement for me to move off of that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about President-elect Trump’s pick for HHS Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., of course he has said he believes that no vaccine is safe and effective. You have been on the record defending the efficacy of vaccines. Are RFK’s views on vaccines a deal breaker for you, senator?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
No, I absolutely appreciate Bobby Kennedy taking a hard look at the vaccines. There are some questions that have to be made. And I appreciate some of the scrutiny that’s going through there. I think Bobby can answer all those. I’ve had multiple conversations with him. I’ve sat down and had long conversations with him and I actually find the guy extremely intelligent when it comes to this stuff. And some of the stuff does raise a lot of questions. But I do got a question for you. The Democrats are spending so much time talking about the scrutiny of President Trump’s picks. And yet, we didn’t spend – did we spend this amount of time scrutinizing Biden’s pick? I mean, we can talk about Rachel, the assistant secretary of HHS. I think that’s a pretty controversial pick, from whatever pronoun that he or he – he or she decides to use. We talk about Sam, the assistant secretary for, or executive – underneath energy of – Secretary of Energy. And the individual was arrested multiple times for stealing luggage off of conveyor belts inside airports.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
And I didn’t see the same type of scrutiny that the Democrats used on these individual’s picks. There’s been a lot of picks. I mean, we can talk about Pete Buttigieg. Is he really qualified to be in the Department of Transportation —
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wait, hold on Senator. Let’s stay —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
But I don’t see the same people giving the scrutiny here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s – we scrutinized all of those picks robustly. But Senator, let me just go back to this, because you’ve been on the record saying that you do believe vaccines are safe and effective. You’re not concerned about RFK Jr. overseeing the largest health agency in the land?
SENATOR MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
I have said that there are some positives to vaccinations. I’ve also questioned vaccines multiple times. And I think they should be questioned. For instance, why is America highest in autism? What is causing that? Is it our diet? Or is it some of the stuff we’re putting in our children’s system? We used to be – used to be almost not even heard of, then it went from one to 10,000, and then one to 5,000 and one to 2,000. In some races right now, one out of every 36 kids by the age of three had developed some form of autism. What is causing that? And if it is the vaccines, there’s no – nothing wrong with actually taking a hard look and finding, is that what’s causing it. Is it something else that we’re putting in our systems? We do know we’re not as healthy as we should be right now. We’re the most developed country in the world, so all things should be on the table. And if that’s scrutinizing vaccinations, then that is exactly where we need to go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, I just have to say, no credible expert or study has shown a link between vaccines and autism. So I just want to be on the record with that. Very quickly though because we’re almost out of time —
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Exactly. But when we ask about the studies for the vaccines Kristen – I know, but when we ask about the vaccines and the study that was done specific for autism, it’s extremely vague. And in fact, there’s not been a direct study on each individual vaccine if it has the possibility of causing it. They have an overall reaching view. And I ask these questions because I sat on Health in the House and on the Senate. And we have got almost no answers on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Again, there’s just no scientific evidence for that. But very quickly because we’re almost out of time. Of course President-elect Trump has floated the idea of recess appointments. Would you vote to approve recess appointments? Is that something you would support?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Yeah, if it became the last option. It is very difficult to get there. Remember, underneath Article II, Section III, the president does have the right to call us into recess if we can’t agree. And that means if we get bogged down and let’s say Hakeem Jeffries in the House is holding up some of the – not the Senate confirmations, but some of the stuff that’s going on in the House, and not to do with confirmations, or if we deal with Chuck Schumer in the Senate with confirmations, the president does have the right to call us in to recess. However, it’s very difficult to get that done because in 2014, Obama did this, Republicans took him to court, and underneath the Canning case, and we actually won. So there’s some cases out there that shows that this wouldn’t be temporary. And first of all, we’d have to be in recess for ten days. Both houses would agree to be in recess for ten days before the first appointment. The appointment would be temporary, meaning it would only be at least two years or until the next Congress goes in. And so we’d still have to go through the confirmation period anyway. So it would be absolute last resort. But if that’s what we have to do to get the confirmation through, then absolutely let’s do it. But I would say that would be last option.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, yup. And you talk about Hakeem Jeffries, we’ll put this to him coming up in just a minute. But Senator Markwayne Mullin, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it.
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, the House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Republicans have retained control of the House, holding a narrow majority of 218 seats to Democrats’ 212, with five races still uncalled at this hour. Joining me now is the House Democratic leader, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He’s also the author of the new children’s book, The ABCs of Democracy. Leader Jeffries, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Good morning. Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is great to have you. I want to start with the results of the presidential election. For more than a year now, you have issued really dire warnings about what a second Trump term would look like. Take a look at a little bit of what you’ve said.
[START TAPE]
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
It would be a very dangerous, devastating and destructive thing if Donald Trump got anywhere close to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
The American people should be terrified. Everything that we care about is on the ballot this November.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
If Roe v. Wade can fall, then anything can fall. Democracy itself as we know it can fall.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Jeffries, why do you think those warnings didn’t resonate with voters?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, I’ve congratulated incoming President Donald Trump, and as House Democrats, we look forward to working with the incoming administration whenever and wherever possible to find bipartisan common ground to solve problems for the American people.That’s what the American people want us to do, to deliver real results on the issues that matter. But at the same period of time, we will continuously push back against far-right extremism whenever necessary. We will protect Social Security. We will protect Medicare. We will protect the Affordable Care Act. We will protect reproductive freedom, and we will protect the progress that we’ve made on having a sustainable planet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about some new reporting that’s come out. Axios is reporting that some Democrats are frustrated with Speaker Emerita Pelosi’s public critique of the party’s missteps leading up to the election, saying she needs to let you lead the caucus. One lawmaker went so far as to say, quote, “She needs to take a seat.” Another said they don’t think Pelosi is being, quote, “respectful” of you. Do you agree?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
I think Speaker Emerita Pelosi has been incredibly respectful of the entire leadership team. It’s an honor to stand on the shoulders of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, an incredibly consequential public servant in the history of America, and to continue to work closely with Speaker Pelosi and, of course, Jim Clyburn and Steny Hoyer. We stand on their shoulders. At the same period of time, as House Democrats, we’re proud of the new leadership team. We’re looking forward to confronting the challenges that we have to face on behalf of the American people. We’re going to focus like a laser beam on dealing with the issues related to working-class Americans and middle-class Americans and those who aspire to be part of the middle class, to make sure that we can build a healthy and affordable economy, and help out everyday Americans who for far too long have been struggling to live paycheck to paycheck. That’s a team effort, and we’re going to dive right in as a team.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, though, do you think she’s undermining your leadership with her public
pronouncements?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, that was quick. One of the arguments that Nancy Pelosi made is that President Biden should have gotten out of the race sooner. Do you believe he should’ve dropped out sooner?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
I think that President Biden will go down in history as one of the most consequential presidents of all time. And I was thankful for all of the work that we were able to do together. He did make the decision, it was a selfless decision, to pass the torch to Vice President Kamala Harris. I think she ran with it, and did the best job that she could under incredibly challenging circumstances in a little over 100 days. She came close, but we fell short. And we’ll have to figure out, do an after-action analysis. And we’ve said that should be candid and clear-eyed and comprehensive about what was done right, what was done wrong, collectively. And most importantly, how do we improve upon our performance so we’re in the strongest possible position to solve the real challenges that everyday Americans face and have faced for far too long. The deck has been stacked against the American middle class and those who aspire to be part of it. We recognize that, and we have to deal with it decisively.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to my next point, and it starts with your book, your new book, The ABCs of Democracy. This is a children’s book. It’s based, of course, though, on the floor speech that you delivered, outlining Democratic values when you became leader. One of the values, and I want to put this up on the screen, is you say, quote, “Working families over the well-connected.” In this past election, Donald Trump won working-class voters, traditionally Democrats’ stronghold. Why?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, it’s an illustrated book for people of all ages, and hopefully will set forth some values and a blueprint for how we move forward. We clearly have to put working families over the well-connected. In America, let’s be clear, when you work hard and play by the rules, you should be able to provide a comfortable living for yourself and for your family, purchase a home, educate your children, have access to high-quality health care, go on vacation every now and then –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Leader Jeffries –
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES
And, of course, one day retire with grace and dignity.
KRISTEN WELKER
But Leader Jeffries, why did President-elect Trump resonate with those voters instead of Democrats? What were you all missing?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, that’s going to be an incredibly important part of our analysis. What I can tell you is that our focus has and always will be on delivering for everyday Americans. That American dream that I talked about, it’s been under assault for decades for a wide variety of reasons. Poorly negotiated trade deals, the outsourcing of good-paying American jobs, the decline of unionization, and, of course, the rise of automation have all jammed up people in the heartland of America, the Great Lake states, and working families all across the country. And it’s going to fall on Democrats, Republicans and independents to do something about it decisively. To me, that’s the lesson that I take from the most recent election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you now about that report that the House Ethics Committee was set to vote on to release into former Congressman Matt Gaetz – of course, President-elect Trump’s pick to be the next attorney general. Speaker Johnson is now saying that the report should not be released. What’s your reaction to what Speaker Johnson is saying?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Of course, it should be released. And that’s not just Democrats saying that. You have repeatedly seen Senate Republicans make clear, who are on the Senate Judiciary Committee, or throughout that chamber, say that they want access to all available information, so they can make a decision about whether the nominee for attorney general is qualified to serve in that office. The Senate has a clear responsibility to serve as a separate and co-equal branch of government, and a check and balance. That’s as America as baseball, motherhood and apple pie.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let me ask you about another pick, President-elect Trump’s pick for director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, of course, your former colleague in the House. Here’s what Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to say about her just this week. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ:
Tulsi Gabbard is someone who has met with war criminals, violated the Department of State’s guidance and secretly, clandestinely went to Syria and met with Assad, who gassed and attacked his own people with chemical weapons. She’s considered to be essentially, by most assessments, a Russian asset.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Jeffries, do you agree that she’s a Russian asset?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Here’s what I have to say about several of the nominations that have been made by the incoming president, including the one that Debbie Wasserman Schultz was referring to. The incoming president, throughout the campaign, promised the American people that we would have the best economy, the best border security and the best administration possible.The question that has to be asked: Is this the best that we can do in the context of some of these nominations? Is this the very best that America has to offer for a moment like this, with so many challenges that we confront? Of course not. America deserves better. Hopefully, we’ll see the Senate Republicans do their job, scrutinize these picks, certainly confirm those that meet the basic level of qualifications and reject others.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Jeffries, you’re not willing to say she’s a Russian asset?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
No, that’s not how I would characterize her at that – this particular juncture. But I’m open to scrutinizing whatever information is presented to all of us. But this is going to fall on Senate Democrats and Senate Republicans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, of course there’s talk of recess appointments. If President-elect Trump tries to push that, is there any recourse that you have in the House to try to block that from happening? What would you do?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, we will work very closely with our Senate Democratic colleagues. I have great trust and respect in Leader Chuck Schumer, in Dick Durbin, to make sure that no end runs can be done as best as we can. Listen, at the end of the day, we have to stop the brinkmanship, stop the partisanship, stop the bickering and the backbiting. The American people sent a message. They want us to work together to deliver real results and solve problems for hardworking American taxpayers. That’s the job that House Democrats will do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Leader Jeffries, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, President-elect Donald Trump’s cabinet picks have shocked Washington. Will the Senate confirm some of his most controversial choices? The panel’s next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, President-elect Donald Trump’s cabinet picks have shocked Washington. Will the Senate confirm some of his most controversial choices? The panel’s next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS News Hour; Eugene Daniels, White House Correspondent for Politico and co-author of Politico “Playbook”; Jen Psaki, former White House Press Secretary and host of Inside Jen Psaki; and Lanhee Chen, fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Thanks to all of you for being here. Amna, let me start with you. We’ve been talking about President-elect Trump’s Cabinet picks throughout this morning. Obviously, some of them are controversial. To some extent, this is really the first big test for Republicans in the Senate, isn’t it?
AMNA NAWAZ:
It’s the first big loyalty test, probably the first of many to come. And loyalty is the one thread that ties all of these nominees together. Look, we’ve seen the way that the nomination process is unfolding for team Trump. We know that he’s making these decisions very, very quickly. His team tells us they believe they have a mandate because of the way he won this election to put into place whoever he wants to see his agenda through. And we also know that they don’t want to repeat what they see as the mistakes of the past, where they leaned on Republican establishment, went with candidates who they now see as problematic, people like Jim Mattis and Rex Tillerson and John Kelly, people who disagreed with the president and stood up to him to restrain some of his worst impulses in office. Those people will not be in the room this time. So, for the senators, I think the big question right now is: How will they treat these nominees? And how they choose to oppose some of them? Do they ask enough questions about RFK’s anti-vax status, Hegseth’s lack of experience in management of any kind, Gabbard’s questioning of her own intelligence committee, or all the questions around Gaetz? Or do they act as a rubber stamp? It’s a big indication of how they’ll act for the whole presidency moving forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Eugene, that really is the big difference. In 2016 the picks were establishment, now it seems like it’s all about loyalty. Matt Gaetz seems to have one of the toughest paths. A number of senators privately telling NBC News that they think it’s going to be very tough for him to get confirmed. How do you see this playing out?
EUGENE DANIELS:
Loyalty and also some disdain for the exact agencies that they will be in charge of in a lot of these cases, too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Great point.
EUGENE DANIELS:
For Gaetz, I think he is probably the easiest person for senators to, behind the scenes say, “I’m not with it.” Because the kinds of allegations that we’ve seen publicly, already – a lot of it, already happening – is not that he doesn’t have experience. It’s that, you know, allegedly that he had relations with women – girls, who are under 18 years old, right? But the difference is, this happens all the time with Republicans. We’ve seen it for years. They say a lot of things to us behind closed doors. And then we watch them walk right up into the cameras and say the exact opposite, right? Or, more importantly, they vote the exact opposite. That has happened over and over and over again. And so there’s the possibility that Gaetz here might not become the attorney general, not through the normal process. Or, he might. Because the senators are going to do, likely, the rubber stamping aspect of it. The ones to watch are the one who are up in 2026 and the folks who are in the kind of bluer, purpler states who are safer, people like Susan Collins who, probably, if she goes against Gaetz, is probably going to get more support in her home state.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. And of course, Lanhee, Gaetz has denied any wrongdoing. You just heard Senator Markwayne Mullin say he hasn’t decided how he’s going to vote yet. But he does want to see that report from the House Ethics Committee.
LANHEE CHEN:
Yeah, look, the advice and consent function is a serious function. I think a lot of senators will take it very seriously. And 53 is a significant majority for Republicans. But it’s not 60, right? And so it doesn’t take all that many Republicans to peel off before there is a problem there. But, obviously, there’s a focus on some of these nominees. And just step back for a minute though. There’s a lot of nominees that aren’t getting as much attention that I think are actually very, very good choices, whether it’s Doug Burgum, to deal with some of these issues around energy costs which are rising in America. Marco Rubio has strong bipartisan support. We see that with Elise Stefanik. So, I think that you can spend time talking about the controversial ones. But the reality is there are some very good appointments, here, too, that I think aren’t getting a lot of attention and should, because they’re important from a policy perspective.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Jen, you were in the Biden administration when the president was making his picks to fill out his Cabinet. Talk a little bit about the high stakes of a process like this and what your takeaways are.
JEN PSAKI:
Well, what we’re seeing here play out is, clearly, this is not how a normal process goes. And how a normal process goes is there is an extensive vetting process where candidates are asked everything about their personal lives, everything about their finances. Clearly, we’re not seeing that right now. I think – I understand your point here. But, if you look at two of the big four, as we can shorthand them, to the Department of Justice and the Department of Defense, you have nominees that are not qualified and have major ethical issues that are publicly known. So, I think the lack of focus on some of the other nominees is more because that is quite alarming to not just Democrats, but Republicans as well. And I think there’s an ease here in just focusing on what the tabloid headlines are. And I would hope, and I would advise, Democrats not to just do that, right? Because it’s easy just to focus on, “Oh, he had – allegedly had sex with a minor.” He’s also not qualified for the job in multiple of these cases. And that’s the key thing here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about that, the ethical question?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, look, the ethical questions are serious. But I would say we have seen nominations before from presidents of both parties where there have been ethical and substantive issues. Let’s not forget, we had a nominee for HHS secretary in this administration who had never dealt with health care before being nominated. So I think the notion –
JEN PSAKI:
He was the attorney. Look, I’m not here to defend. He was the attorney general for the state of California. This is a little bit of a different –
LANHEE CHEN:
He had experience suing health care companies. But not anything to do with health care.
JEN PSAKI:
But I think the issue here that I’m raising that I hope that is part of the process here, not just the ethical questions, and this is my point, is somebody who, yes, he was a military veteran, and that should be honored, but he is somebody who has never overseen an entity that is as large and as expansive as the Department of Defense, should be sitting in the Oval Office sitting in the situation room advising the president on the lives of servicemen and women? Should he be the one sitting next to his counterparts overseas?
LANHEE CHEN:
That’s why the Senate needs to –
AMNA NAWAZ:
The speed at which these nominations is coming is forcing us to have a lot of these conversations. And I think that that’s forcing Republicans to have answers. They don’t have answers yet. Because remember, last time he was elected, Mr. Trump didn’t make a single nomination until December. We are seeing key positions rolled out one after the other after the other, which raises questions about how those decisions are being made at all. So, it makes it harder to ask questions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Eugene, what about the tension between, yes, you have the ethical questions, but then also the questions about whether these folks, some of them, are – actually have the right experience for the roles that they’re being picked for?
EUGENE DANIELS:
To Jen’s point, if Democrats can convince enough senators, Republican senators, on the issues and the policy prescriptions and whether or not these people have the management experience, that’s probably a better lane for them to try to do this in, right? Because you’re not going to see them – What we’ve seen from Republicans for a long time in the Senate and the House is that, you know, a lot of the tabloid-y stuff doesn’t bother them, right? And that has been key as Trump has run the Republican Party. So, if Democrats can do that, talk to them behind closed doors – And they can do a pressure campaign, right? That’s the question we’ve been asking a lot of both House and Senate Democrats, “Are you guys going to work on a pressure campaign publicly to convince some of these senators to do the thing that they’re saying behind closed doors that they already want to do?”
JEN PSAKI:
And you have to pick one. This is the hard thing with Democrats.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Exactly. You can’t do all of them.
JEN PSAKI:
Correct.
AMNA NAWAZ:
And the public-private thing is important, too, because the vote to make Senator Thune majority leader was a private vote. They will have to publicly defend votes for the nominees.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, great conversation, guys. Stand by, we have more to come. When we come back, President Biden’s thoughts from his time as a senator, on the role the Senate should play in confirming a president’s cabinet. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The Senate’s role in providing advice and consent on a president’s Cabinet nominees is in the spotlight once again, as some of President-elect Trump’s picks raise eyebrows on Capitol Hill. As George W. Bush was preparing to take office, then-Senator Joe Biden joined this broadcast with his thoughts about the Senate’s duty to closely examine White House appointees.
[START TAPE]
SEN. JOE BIDEN:
We hear so often people saying, “You know, the president won. He should get his picks.” Well, if that were the case there wouldn’t be a thing called advice and consent in the Constitution. There are several circumstances in which the president should not get his pick. One, obviously, is if he picks someone to – for a job who says they want to do away with the job. I’m not going to vote for anybody who says, “I want to be head of a department. My purpose is to get rid of the department.” Number two, if you have someone for the job who communicates to the public at large that they are not likely to, in an even-handed way, apply the law, whatever it happens to be, whatever department, then that’s a reason not to be for them. For example, I’ve – I’ve – I’ve voted against Attorneys General in both administrations.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democrats in the political wilderness. How will they operate with the GOP in control of Congress?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, and the panel is still here. Jen, I want to play one of I think the biggest images from the week, which is President-elect Trump meeting with President Biden. Of course this is the tradition that then-President Trump did not extend to the incoming President Biden four years ago. How do you see Democrats charting their path forward at this moment? And I should mention both leaders said we do want to have a smooth transition.
JEN PSAKI:
That’s correct. But I also think that you can’t – nobody here, and anywhere, should focus on one visual moment as an indication of all the things happening behind the scenes. You’re obviously not doing that. Look, I think Democrats are in the wilderness, as you just said before. There is no clear leader of the party. Joe Biden is going to be out of office shortly. Kamala Harris just lost the election. There are a lot of governors and other people who might emerge, maybe people we don’t know about yet. But it – there is no clear leader of the party right now. That, to me, is an opportunity because people have to decide – nobody’s given it, right? You seize the mantle or you don’t. Are you going to be the person who decides – who’s the right person to stand up against Trump or are you going to be the person who brings the country together? Are you going to be the person who talks about the economy in – in ways that people understand? There are lots of ways to do it. I don’t know who’s going to emerge, but that’s the moment we’re in right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Eugene, I think that’s one of the most fascinating aspects of this moment. There’s no clear leader of this party and yet Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, one of the leadership voices, what do you make of what you heard from him in the context of the – the path forward? Does it seem like they know exactly what it’s going to look like?
EUGENE DANIELS:
No, they don’t, right? They – they seem to have no idea. And the – the part of that is because there’s so many different constituencies within the Democratic Party, both here on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. But I think the – the most interesting dynamic that’s going to play out here is kind of the young guard versus the old guard, right? I’ve been hearing from a lot of 30, 40, even 50 – that’s young around here in DC – that they are going to put up a huge fight with the older folks because they think you can’t bring us to this – to where we are right now and take us out of it.
JEN PSAKI:
And this moment, I’m just going to say, for generational change –
EUGENE DANIELS:
Yeah –
JEN PSAKI:
– is now –
EUGENE DANIELS:
— it’s now.
JEN PSAKI:
– because there are people in leadership positions who are not of the young guard. Democrats control nothing.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Exactly.
JEN PSAKI:
So if people out there want change, now is the moment to change it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That’s part of the tension with Nancy Pelosi, by the way.
LANHEE CHEN:
I – I was going to say, I think one of the challenges that Democrats are going to have for the next couple of years is, is it going to be an oppositional agenda or is it going to be a forward-looking agenda? Because they – they have an opportunity –
JEN PSAKI:
It’s got to be both.
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, but they’re going to have to emphasize one or the other, and I would argue that they really ought to emphasize the – the agenda that’s forward-looking and thinking about the ways in which, and this is one way in which – I never thought I’d say this – that I might agree with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders in the sense that I do think –
KRISTEN WELKER:
We never thought you’d say that.
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, yeah, look, we can make news today. But, look, I – I – I think there is this idea that there has to be an articulation of, “What are you actually going to do for working Americans?” And I think that got lost a little bit –
JEN PSAKI:
– but it’s not going to be one person.
LANHEE CHEN:
– in the 2024 campaign.
JEN PSAKI:
Lots of people are –
LANHEE CHEN:
Right, right.
JEN PSAKI:
– going to present different agendas. That’s the moment that everybody is – and also, Speaker Pelosi did step back. She’s still in Congress. She’s no longer the speaker. I don’t think that’s the same example as kind of moving people out of leadership roles who have now aged out of those roles.
AMNA NAWAZ:
This tension, though, between how they move going forward with the next Trump presidency, the generational tension, this is what’s going to define Democrats’ way forward. Look, there’s the – there’s the unknowables they’re still wrestling with, like what would have happened if there was a different primary process, if Biden had dropped out earlier. All of those things are still very much part of the conversation. But even in the House alone you have folks like Jeffries obviously saying, “We’re going to work with this president where we can,” you have folks like Pramila Jayapal saying, “We’re not going to help Republicans govern moving forward. They have to do it on their own.” Democrats haven’t yet figured out which way they’re going to go.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Because every time they want to be the adults in the room, right? They want to show the American people, “We know how to govern.” But the American people want to, often, want to see people fighting, right? And more importantly they want to see someone who is going to – they need an example, right? If Democrats believe that Donald Trump and Republicans can’t govern this country, why assist them in doing that and making it look like they can? That is something the Democrats have to figure out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Jen, that tonal issue, being the adults in the room, I’ve heard some Democrats privately say that came off as condescending and that’s part of what needs to be addressed as well in terms of the message to voters.
JEN PSAKI:
Yes. I mean, look, adults in the room has many meanings. Finding ways to work together on policies where there’s agreement, actually the public does want that, right? But also finding places to pick your fights and being bold is also important. I know you’re going to say you can’t do both. You absolutely can.
LANHEE CHEN:
I was going to say that.
JEN PSAKI:
You absolutely can do both. I think tonally though, there are lessons learned from the election without navel gazing forever. There was- it was not just people going to Trump. It was the Democrats losing working people. If they’re the party of working people, they need to figure out how to better talk to that group of people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Fantastic conversation, guys. Thank you so much. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it is Meet The Press.
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