KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: return to power.
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
Look what happened, is this crazy?
VICE PRES.-ELECT JD VANCE:
I think that we just witnessed the greatest political comeback in the history of the United States of America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
In a decisive victory, Donald Trump is elected the 47th president of the United States, returning to the White House after an extraordinary political comeback.
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
This will truly be the golden age of America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will he lead in a second term? Plus: defeated.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
The outcome of this election is not what we wanted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Vice President Kamala Harris faces a stunning loss from voters deeply upset with the direction of the country.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
While I concede this election, I do not concede the fight that fueled this campaign.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
A defeat does not mean we are defeated. We lost this battle.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What lessons will Democrats take from their loss? And: majority rule. Republicans regain control of the Senate and fight to keep their majority in the House. How will the GOP implement Trump’s agenda on Capitol Hill? My guests this morning: Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming and Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent Garrett Haake; Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of the Cook Political Report; Ramesh Ponnuru of National Review; and María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. President-elect Donald Trump is now returning to the White House after an historic political realignment. Mr. Trump swept all seven battleground states, after NBC News projected overnight that he won Arizona. He also tore down the Democratic “blue wall” and is poised to become the first Republican in two decades to win the national popular vote. President-elect Trump, charged with plotting to overturn the last election, now establishing himself as a transformational political force, reshaping American politics in his own image.
[START TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
We made history for a reason tonight, and the reason is going to be just that we overcame obstacles that nobody thought possible.
VICE PRES.-ELECT JD VANCE:
I think that we just witnessed the greatest political comeback in the history of the United States of America.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
This decisive victory should shake the Democrat establishment to its core.
SEN. JOHN MORENO:
This is a new dawn of Republican leadership. With President Trump and JD Vance in the White House, we are going to advance an agenda that is an American agenda.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We’re going to have the most aggressive first 100 days agenda that anybody’s seen in a modern era.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now those victories powered by populist frustration, with exit polls showing three-quarters of voters feel dissatisfied or angry about the way things are going in the country. Nearly half of voters saying they strongly disapprove of President Biden. The share who say they’ve gotten worse off under the current administration, the highest ever in exit polls that have asked the question, surpassing the great recession. Vice President Kamala Harris conceding defeat.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Look, I am so proud of the race we ran and the way we ran it. Now, I know folks are feeling and experiencing a range of emotions right now. I get it, but we must accept the results of this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Democrats now grappling with their stunning loss and trying to figure out what went wrong.
[START TAPE]
SPEAKER EMERITA NANCY PELOSI:
Had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race. Kamala, I think, still would have won, but she may have been stronger, having taken her case to the public sooner.
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL:
I think people never got to know Kamala Harris during the time she was in this campaign.
REP. RITCHIE TORRES:
If the goal is to win elections on Twitter, then you should embrace movements like defund the police, but if the goal is to win elections in the real world where it matters, then you have to appeal to working class people of color.
DAVID AXELROD:
The party itself has increasingly become a smarty pants, suburban, college-educated party.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ:
I take issue sometimes with people saying, “Oh, the quote unquote left is the reason why this is happening.” The ultimate problem is our ability to clearly and forthrightly advocate for an agenda that clearly champions the working class.
JON FAVREAU:
Joe Biden’s decision to run for president again was a catastrophic mistake.
JON LOVETT:
We can all unite in knowing that Joe Biden would have lost and deserves a lot of blame for the situation that we’re in.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The focus now shifts to what President-elect Trump will do in his second term, with a Republican Senate majority and presidential power expanded by the Supreme Court. At this hour, control of the House remains up for grabs, with 19 races still uncalled. On the campaign trail, Mr. Trump made many promises to voters.
[START TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program of criminals in the history of America. If these companies don’t make their products here in the USA, then they will be forced to pay a very stiff tariff. And I will cut your energy prices in half within 12 months. For people that are using IVF, which is fertilization, we are – the government is going to pay for it, or we’re going to get, or mandate, your insurance company to pay for it. We will cut your taxes, end inflation, slash your prices, raise your wages and bring thousands and thousands of factories back to America.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Biden has invited President-elect Trump to the White House on Wednesday, a longstanding tradition Trump didn’t extend to President Biden in 2020. I spoke to the president-elect on the phone 48 hours after his victory and asked him what he believes his mandate is. He told me it’s “to bring common sense back to the country.” As for day one, he told me, “I think we have lots of firsts” and brought up strengthening the border. I pressed him on the price tag of his mass deportation plan, which experts say could be in the billions. He told me, quote, “It’s not a question of a price tag. … really, we have no choice … when people have killed and murdered … they’re not staying here. … there is no price tag.” For more on all of this, I’m joined by National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Steve, historic results. Break it down for us.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, well, Kristen, you said it. Not just Donald Trump winning the election, but winning the popular vote. First time in two decades for a Republican. And how did he do it? He did it by transforming the Republican Party. It is now more diverse than it’s ever been in modern times, and certainly much more than when Donald Trump first came on the scene eight years ago. A lot of ways to look at this. How about this year? When it says “pre-Trump,” that’s the last presidential election before Donald Trump started running. You gotta go back to 2012 for that. Remember, three straight elections Trump’s been the Republican candidate. So pre-Trump voters under 30 were going for the Democrats by 23 points. Folks with incomes under $50,000, 22 points for the Democrats. Folks without college degrees, four points for the Democrats. That’s pre-Trump. What comes out of this election? Look at some of these shifts. The youth vote, that Democratic margin cut more than in half. Voters under $50,000, now a Republican constituency. Voters without a college degree, look at that shift. Now a core Republican constituency. And then we can talk about race, ethnicity. This gets into that diversity I mentioned a minute ago. Check this out. Again, pre-Trump versus now. The Black vote still overwhelmingly Democratic, but that’s a 15-point shift. It used to be 87 points for the Democrats, down to 72. How about this? You’ve heard a lot about it this week. This is what the numbers look like. Hispanic voters were 44 points Democratic before Donald Trump. Now, basically a toss-up constituency. And Asian Americans, a 32-point shift there as well. That’s what’s happened to the Republican Party since Donald Trump became its standard bearer eight years ago. This has been the movement. And meanwhile, for the Democratic Party, the story is the opposite. Pre-Trump versus now, check out some of these movements. Among white voters, this was a 20-point Republican constituency before Trump. Still a Republican constituency, but a little bit less so. And white voters are such a massive share of the electorate, that four-point shift, very meaningful. Again, college-educated voters now a core Democratic constituency. Folks earning more than $100,000, used to be a Republican constituency, now a Democratic constituency. And this gets to – we talk all about the battlegrounds. Trump swept the battlegrounds. But the other big story this week has to do with the popular vote and how Trump pulled that off. Here’s one answer. Big blue states with very diverse populations, this new coalition that Donald Trump’s assembled, it meant that he didn’t win any of these, but he made some giant strides. California, biggest of them all. Twenty-nine point Biden win four years ago. Currently, only 18 for Harris, her home state. Look at New York. Basically Trump cutting that Democratic margin in half. Go down this list and look inside those states, and you’ll see it. Blue collar areas, cities, metro areas with large Hispanic populations. That’s where Trump made his big gains there. We’ll land on this one map, one battleground state that I think tells the story of these two coalitions here visually. Let’s call up Wisconsin. We know in this election Wisconsin went to Donald Trump. You’re looking at a pre-Trump election because I just want to show you, this is what a battleground state like Wisconsin looked like not that long ago. When Barack Obama ran and carried the state over John McCain, look at all the blue here. So many of these are small, rural counties with blue collar populations. Barack Obama could sweep almost all these counties. Democrats were competitive here. Take a look at this map. And I’m going to call up what just happened this week. All that blue has become – look at all that red. All of those blue collar areas with Donald Trump as the Republican leader for the last eight years, have moved this dramatically to the Republicans. And it’s left the Democrats relying more than ever on areas like Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee County. Areas that have large populations of voters with college degrees, of higher income voters, of progressive voters. And in this election, Kristen, it just wasn’t enough for the Democrats to lean on that when they’ve lost so much ground with blue collar voters elsewhere.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Steve, it is just striking to look at that map of Wisconsin, and frankly, all the results that you laid out. Now look, the results are in. They’re not going to change. It is worth noting, there is still counting going on.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah. I mean, if you remember from 2020, it took about a month till we got all the national popular vote. And let me just show you, nationally here, one thing we’re waiting on, big – we know California is a Harris state. But as I said, still some votes to come: 75% is in. That means there are millions more votes just from California. And there are other states like this. A lot of it has to do with vote by mail, those ballots taking a long time for some of these states. So when you look at where the current popular vote stands, you know, you’ve got there – probably another ten million or so, when all is said and done, are going to be added to this. This has been the story for a while in states like California. They take a very long time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, Steve Kornacki, we know you’ll continue to stay on top of every vote. Thank you so much.
STEVE KORNACKI:
You got it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is the Senate Republican Conference Chair, John Barrasso of Wyoming, who is poised to be the next Republican whip. Senator Barrasso, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Great to be back. What you saw there, really, was an earthquake election. The biggest comeback, politically, in the history of our country. You know, they used to call Bill Clinton “the comeback kid.” Donald Trump is the comeback king. He has come back from two impeachments, from being dragged through the courts, from getting shot and he won with over 300 electoral votes, a majority of the people, winning all these demographic areas. And, you know, he brought us four new Republican senators. We now have 53 Republican senators. What that proves is America, the people of this country, voted. They want to get this country back on track.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we should note, NBC News still hasn’t called Arizona or Pennsylvania. But let’s talk about the earthquake because Republicans do control the Senate, Senator. So talk to me about how you see this. How do you think and what do you think the Senate Republican mandate is?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, the mandate are the two things that people care the most about, which is the high costs and the open border. And those are the things we’re going to start working on immediately. We’ve been working with the transition team on those things. Now, there are some things that the president can do as soon as he takes office, in terms of making some U-turns on these bad policies of the current administration, in terms of unleashing American energy, in terms of the policies with the border, reversing so many of these executive orders that were put in place four years ago. I expect to see the president put back in place the Remain in Mexico policy, stop this catch-and-release policy. And the Senate also wants to work very quickly — actually, before the inauguration — on making sure the president’s Cabinet is in place. We’re going to have hearings and votes so that on Day One, January 20, when the president takes over, he’s going to have as much of the Cabinet in place as we can get. And he met huge resistance in 2016 and when he was inaugurated in 2017 with getting his Cabinet in place. What I’m hoping is that as a result of this huge landslide victory, that we get a little more cooperation from the Democrats in helping President Trump get that Cabinet in place for Day One.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Senator, let’s talk about some of those priorities that you mapped out. And let’s talk about the border. I had the opportunity to talk to President-elect Trump, this week, about his
win. He said, at the top of the list, securing the border. I asked him for details, what’s the price tag. He said, quote, “It’s not a question of a price tag. We have no choice. There is no price tag.” Ultimately, Congress will have to decide whether to give President-elect Trump a blank check. Do you agree that there is no price tag for Donald Trump’s mass deportation plan?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, I agree there’s no price tag on protecting the safety and security of our country and our citizens. President Trump is going to enforce the law. And we haven’t had that, over the last four years. There are over 10 million illegal immigrants in this country right now. And we’re talking about people who are from criminal cartels, drug dealers, people on the terrorist watch list. These are people who are here in this country, who have been murdering, raping, poisoning our citizens. And what the president said, is he wants to prioritize and go after those people first, to deport those individuals. And, Kristen, if you take a look – you didn’t get through this with the poll numbers – the number of people that support deporting these individuals, it is a super majority of Americans. And I believe it had a lot to do with the president’s success, his overwhelming success at the polls, last Tuesday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And worth noting, not all 10 million are criminals. But let me just drill down with you because, by some estimates, that mass deportation plan could cost as much as $88 billion a year, just to deport one million people, Senator. Would you approve of a package that big, which would undoubtedly add to the national debt?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
I agree with the president when I — where we need to start. We need to start with the people who are felons, who have left in this — been left in this country. People who are on the terrorist watch list, people who have been convicted in other countries of murder and rape. People who are committing crimes in this country. That’s the place to start, and that’s where President Trump is about to start.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let’s talk about President-elect Trump’s other big priorities. Taxes. He’s promised a lot of tax cuts. We have a list of some of them here. Let’s take a look. Extending the 2017 tax cuts, further slashing the corporate rate, lifting the cap on deductions for state and local taxes, eliminating taxes on tips, overtime and social security benefits and so on; the estimated price of this to the tune of $9 trillion. Do you believe that President-elect Trump will be able to deliver on all of those tax cuts, Senator?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, we’ve been working with the transition team. And I will tell you, in the hopes that we took the presidency, the House, and the Senate, members of the Senate have been meeting him on the finance committee, through the summer and the fall, in terms of saying, what can we do? How can we make sure we can continue these tax cuts from 2017, and extend them, and make them permanent? What sort of things can we claw back from some of the excessive spending that the Democrats have done, in terms of money that’s going out or hasn’t gone out, yet? So we’ve been working on this, all the way through. And we’re going to continue to do that. Now, first, as you know, this is something we would do through reconciliation. So we have to win the House to make it happen and pass a budget. But, we’ve been working with Lindsey Graham. He’ll be chairman of the budget committee in the Senate to make sure we can accomplish as much as we possibly can to give the tax relief that the American people deserve, need. And we know that was all this massive spending by the last administration that gave us this inflation that hurt the country so much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, so let me ask you that because — again, the estimate is all those tax cuts could cost about $9 trillion and could add that much to the national debt. Would you approve that $9 trillion?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
What we know is when we cut taxes last time, the amount of money coming into the treasury actually went up, it stimulated the economy, less burden on businesses, less burden on families and individuals. What we also know is that government spending went up more. Our problem is not that we’re taxed too little. It’s that as a nation, we spend too much. The government is too big. We spend too much —
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, just to be —
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
I think that’s a message coming out of this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be clear, though: So you’re saying, yes, you are okay adding to the national debt? Just to be very clear.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
What I’m saying is we have to take a look at the spending. That’s the problem. When we cut taxes in 2017, revenue money coming into the treasury actually went up, but we ended up spending more than we brought in. So that’s the problem. It’s not that we’re taxed too little, it’s we continue to spend too much. The government is too big. It does too much, and we need to take a look at what we can do to make sure the American people have what they need.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you said earlier in this interview that you’re determined to move quickly to confirm President-elect Trump’s Cabinet picks. You are, of course, a doctor. You’re a believer in vaccines. How would you feel about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. — who’s, of course, an outspoken vaccine skeptic — having a role in health care and Donald Trump’s administration? Would you support that?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, since President Trump hasn’t actually made any nominations yet along those lines, I’m not going to comment on any one individual. What I will tell you is that I expect the president to make bold decisions. He has to come up with, actually, 1,200 different appointees who get confirmed by the United States Senate. The Senate will be ready to look at every nominee that he makes. He’s made one decision already, and that’s putting Susie Wiles in as the chief of staff. That’s a historic decision as well. She is the first woman chief of staff of the White House in history. President Trump has done that. She’s terrific. And I can tell you, there are lots and lots of very qualified individuals who are going to be considered for Cabinet posts and other posts in government, and the Senate is ready to take a look at each and every one of them, but I’m not going to comment on any one specific potential nominee this morning.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, we’re almost out of time, but obviously one of the biggest Cabinet positions, attorney general. We all saw the tension between President Trump and his attorney general during his first administration. Do you think it’s important to preserve the independence that’s traditionally existed between the White House and the Justice Department, Senator?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, I think when John Kennedy appointed his brother — his little brother, Bobby, as attorney general — The president gets to choose who he wants. We’ll have hearings on whoever the president appoints as the attorney general of the United States. And I’m looking forward to those discussions and those hearings, and I’m looking forward to moving quickly with the majority we have in the Senate to get the president’s Cabinet in place so he can hit the ground running come January 20.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. And of course, there is a leadership race this week, in the Senate, so we’ll be watching that closely. Great to have your voice and your perspective on this Sunday. Senator Barrasso, thank you so much.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Senator Bernie Sanders issued a scathing statement after the vice president’s loss in what he called a “disastrous campaign,” saying, quote, “It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them.” And Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont joins me now. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you for being here on this Sunday after Election Day. Let’s start right there, your
criticism, incredibly direct. You say you think the Democratic Party has, quote, “abandoned” the working class. How exactly do you think Democrats have abandoned the working class, Senator?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, the working people of this country are extremely angry. They have a right to be angry. In the richest country in the history of the world, today the people on top are doing phenomenally well while 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and millions of families worry that their kids are actually going to have a lower standard of living than they do. You got the top 1% owning more wealth than the bottom 90%. We’re the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all of our people. Twenty-five percent of our seniors are trying to live on $15,000 a year or less. We have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth. And the gap between the people on top and everybody else is getting wider and wider. And then, Kristen, on top of all of that, we got a corrupt campaign finance system which allows billionaires to buy elections. So if you’re an average worker out there, you’re saying, “Hey, I’m working longer and longer hours, going nowhere in a hurry, worried about my kids, and yet the people on top have never had it so good.” Where is the Democratic Party? Are they prepared to stand up to these powerful corporate interests, raise the minimum wage, fight for health care for all people, make sure that all of our kids get the quality education that they need, expand Social Security? Are they prepared to do those things? That’s the issue that we have to address.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, as you know, your statement was met with some sharp reaction as well. This is what Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi had to say. Take a look. I’ll get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
NANCY PELOSI:
Bernie Sanders has not won — let me, with all due respect, and I have a great deal of respect for him, for what he stands for, but I don’t respect him saying that the Democrat Party has abandoned the working-class families.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, how do you respond to Nancy Pelosi?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Nancy’s a friend of mine, and we’ve worked together on many issues. But here is the reality I have to say to Nancy. In the Senate, in the last two years, we have not even brought forth legislation to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, despite the fact that some 20 million people in this country are working for less than $15 an hour. In America today, in the Senate, we have not brought to the floor the PRO Act to make it easier for workers to join unions. We’re not talking about defined benefit pension plans so that our elderly can retire with security. We’re not talking about lifting the cap on Social Security so that we can extend the solvency on Social Security and raise benefits. Bottom line, if you’re an average working person out there do you really think that the Democratic Party is going to the mat, taking on powerful
special interests, and fighting for you? I think the overwhelming answer is no, and that is what has got to change.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me zoom out and just ask you about these results. You’ve heard some of the reaction throughout the Democratic Party. How much do you personally blame President Biden for this loss?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
President Biden, when he came into office, said that he would be the most progressive president since FDR, and I think on domestic issues — not foreign policy — on domestic issues, he has kept his word, and the agenda that he has pushed through has been an extraordinarily strong one. But that agenda has got to be placed within the overall context of American society today. And that American society today is one in which tens of millions of working families and elderly people are struggling while the people on top have never had it so good.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, should he have gotten out of the race more quickly, as some are arguing?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I’m not gonna – I supported him because I think his agenda was a strong agenda, a working-class agenda. I’m not going to look backwards. Kamala ran a strong campaign. She did everything that she could. She decisively won the debate. So to me it’s not just about the campaign. It’s about what does the Democratic Party stand for? Do ordinary people say, “Yeah, that is a party that is fighting for my interests and prepared to take on the big money interests who control the economic and political life of the country?” That’s to me what the issue is.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, we’re talking a lot about the economics. You’ve talked about how the Democratic Party is out of touch when it comes to economic issues. Some Democrats are saying it’s not just economic issues, it’s cultural issues as well. Here’s what Democratic strategist James Carville had to say. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
JAMES CARVILLE:
What killed the Democrats and what killed Biden was a sense of disorder. And part of the sense of disorder was the unfortunate events of what I would refer to as the woke era.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Has the Democratic Party’s focus on identity politics gone too far, Senator?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Let me answer it this way. I think you – if the Democratic – the Democratic Party must continue to stand up against all forms of bigotry. Democrats should hold their head high in saying, “We led the fight for women’s rights and to protect the women’s constitutional right for abortion. We’ve led the fight for civil rights, for gay rights.” That is something we should be proud of. But it’s not either or, Kristen. This is the problem. You can do both. You can say that, “I’m for raising the minimum wage to a living wage, guarantee health care for all people, expanding Social Security, and by the way, I also support a women’s right to control her own body,” et cetera. It’s not either or. It’s going forward in both directions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, I’ve been speaking to some Democrats who are concerned because now President-elect Trump has beaten two women candidates and their concern is that it will make it more difficult to nominate a woman candidate in the future. Do you share that concern, Senator?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, I don’t. I think it’s not a question – look, I’m not going to deny that there is sexism in this country, that there’s racism, there’s homophobia. It’s there. But on the other hand, I think what the American people want to support – whether it’s a woman, a man, a Black or a white or a Latino, whatever — is they want to support somebody who is standing up, Kristen, and fighting for them. People are in pain. People are hurting. They can’t afford to go to a doctor. They can’t afford to send their kids to child care or to college. They’re worried about future generations and what kind of standard of living they will have. Here is the bottom line, and it has to be dealt with. You’ve got an economy today doing phenomenally well for the people on top. It is not working for the working class, all right? How do we address those issues and in the richest country in the history of the world create an economy that works for all? That is the issue. And by the way, what Trump did in this election is to say, “I know that you’re hurting and the reason is you’ve got millions of people coming across the border illegally. They’re eating your dogs. They’re eating your cats.” He gave an explanation. It happened to be a pretty crazy explanation. Yes, we’ve got to strengthen the borders, but that is not going to raise wages for working people or provide healthcare to all people. The Democrats need an explanation, and that explanation is corporate greed and the power of the billionaire class. I know that’s uncomfortable for people in the Democrat Party, some people, but that is the issue we have to address.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, quickly before I let you go, I do want to ask you about the Supreme Court. Some Democrats behind the scenes quietly talking about the possibility, should Justice Sotomayor step down to allow President Biden to appoint someone who’s younger? She’s only 70 years old. Is that something that you would support? Do you think she should step down?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, I don’t.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is – have you heard any talk of this?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
A little bit, yes. I don’t think it’s a sensible approach.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you don’t think it’s a sensible approach?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Correct.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you very much for your time this morning and your perspective. We really appreciate it.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Donald Trump’s remarkable return to the White House. What will a second term look like? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent, Garrett Haake; Amy Walter, publisher and editor-in-chief of the Cook Political Report; Ramesh Ponnuru, editor of National Review and María Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino. Thank you all for being here on a big Sunday, the Sunday after Election Day. Lot to chew on. Garrett, let me start with you. You’ve been covering the Trump campaign from the very beginning. I spoke to President-elect Trump. He believes he’s got a mandate after this decisive victory. What are you hearing from inside the campaign and your sources?
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yeah, look, his team really feels vindicated. They had a theory of the case, it proved out. They won big, they won bigger than I think even some of them anticipated that they would. And they see their mandate as really broad. I mean, Trump’s already having conversations with world leaders. He’s starting to sort of flesh out his foreign policy. Domestically, they’re starting to put in place, as you heard from John Barrasso, plans to make his economic agenda the Senate and the House’s economic agenda. This is not Paul Ryan’s Congress that he’s coming into. He’s coming into essentially a MAGA Congress here. And I think stylistically, we’re about to see that the kind of norms that Trump always sort of leaned against, bursted through in some cases in his first administration, he will not be restrained by either. And this is going to be Trump’s Washington when he comes back to it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That is really the big difference from his first administration, Garrett. You lay it out so well. Amy, let me ask you, because you spend your life studying these numbers and these patterns. And here we saw a pattern-shattering event.
AMY WALTER:
Yeah, this was a big – yeah, it was. And it was a big win, it was a decisive win. But I also like to sometimes step away from the numbers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, please step away.
AMY WALTER:
I’ll do both. I’ll go in and I’ll go out –
KRISTEN WELKER:
I know you can do both. Yes.
AMY WALTER:
But I think going back to the theory of the case, the theory of the case was pretty clear for both sides. Which was you have an electorate that is angry, dissatisfied, frustrated with the direction that the country’s going in, frustrated with the economy. Both candidates were trying to be the anti-status quo. Both candidates were trying to be the change candidate. They each had headwinds to that, right? Obviously it’s hard to be the change candidate as the vice president. It’s hard to be the change candidate, as Donald Trump wanted to be, when he is the former president, and comes with a lot of the baggage from that. What he had going for him, though – and kudos to the NBC News poll, which had been showing this for the last couple of months – the way in which people saw Trump’s presidency was much more rosy when he was not president. So in recent – the most recent polls, so in October people saw his presidency in a positive way that they didn’t see it when he was the actual president. I think that helped him. And finally, it was the issue of who do you see as the candidate of change? If you want to talk about realigning, he won that by, in the exit polls, 71% —
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
AMY WALTER:
– of people who said this was – who’s the candidate who is going to bring needed change?
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s fascinating because we spent so much time during the campaign talking about the issue of change. And that number, Amy, that you cite, it really is stunning. María Teresa, central to his victory is the fact that he increased his support among Latino voters. Our correspondent, David Noriega, had a chance to speak to one family. The father, Mario, made the decision to vote for Vice President Harris at the last minute but described himself, quote, “more happy than upset about Donald Trump’s victory.” His wife and son both voted for Trump. Take a listen. Get everyone’s reaction on the other side.
[START TAPE]
DAVID NORIEGA:
When you hear Trump promise mass deportations, do you worry about that?
MIREYA ALVAREZ:
Yes and no. Because the ones that I know, they’re doing good. They’re not breaking any laws.
MARIO ALVAREZ:
I believe he’s going to start deporting all the bad people, all the criminals.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
María Teresa, that’s the distinction. That’s how – and it’s a really clear window into one of the reasons why the voters voted for Trump in larger numbers than in the past.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
Well, and I also think that there is absolutely a realignment right now, where we have a working class that says, “I’m voting for Trump for a cry for help.” If you look at the Latino community, they – we have been the brunt of the pandemic, the brunt of the essential workers. We – most of the folks never recovered. When you look at who participates in unions, just 9% of the Latino community participate. My concern, though, is that under Trump, last time, there was no distinction if you were a criminal. There was no distinction if you were a U.S. citizen. So many families under Trump got caught in a dragnet where U.S. citizens were all of a sudden literally put in detentions, and then people said, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” So I think that there was a really big gamble. But I do think that the party has to have a conversation with itself, the Democratic Party, on how do you talk to those individuals that are feeling need? The IRA, the infrastructure bill, a lot of these, a lot of these pieces have not been absorbed by the communities as folks hoped. And they’re like, “Well, at the end of the day, this man may be racist, but I remember that relief check.” And that was something that we kept hearing over and over again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ramesh, you heard Senator Sanders talk about the fact that President-elect Trump, he believed, had a message that resonated with working-class voters, exactly what María Teresa is pointing to. That, okay, the Biden-Harris administration may have had a record, but Trump arguably had a message that resonated more. Talk about this, frankly, historic comeback, given everything that we’ve seen.
RAMESH PONNURU:
It is a historic comeback. It’s hard to think of an example in U.S. history that really parallels it. It’s more of a comeback than the one that Richard Nixon made after losing the California race in 1962. I think probably the closest you can come is if it’s as though Aaron Burr ran for president in 1804 and succeeded. He won because of a couple of things. First, Republicans thought he was a successful president. They thought that he had been more offended against than offending. And most Republicans didn’t think he’d lost in 2020. He succeeded in bringing about that false narrative. And that led to his never really having had that nomination be a contest. He sailed into it and then he was able to take advantage of an anti-incumbent mood. If you look at the results of this election, it is a classic referendum on the incumbent. People unhappy about the state of the country and taking it out on the party.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Stay with us because we do have another panel coming up, and a lot more to discuss, including what María Teresa was talking about, some of what Democrats are discussing in the aftermath. But when we come back, how did Donald Trump appeal to voters beyond his base to secure his victory? Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. President-elect Trump’s decisive win signals a political realignment for the country, as huge gains in support among Latino and working-class voters helped propel Mr. Trump to a White House return. For Donald Trump, this shift was at least eight years in the making. In a Meet the Press interview during his 2016 run, he suggested that his insurgent bid could generate cross-party appeal.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
I’ve always done better when independents could cross over, and frankly, when Democrats could cross over. You know, in New York when we were doing the voting, they interviewed – a lot of people interviewed – the people that you know, man the voting booths. They said that they’ve never seen so many Democrats wanting to vote for Trump. They were by the thousands. And I will say this, on Election Day we’re going to do very well in New York. But the people were saying to the press that they’ve never seen anything like it. They’ve been there for 30 and 40 years doing this kind of stuff, where Democrats are going over.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, the blame game. Democrats begin the painful process of trying to figure out why they lost to Donald Trump a second time. More with the panel, next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. María Teresa, let me start with you. I’ve been talking to my Democratic sources. One of them described this as a moment of reckoning for the Democratic Party. Is it overstated, or is that accurate?
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
No, it absolutely is. I mean, the party of the people did not turn out the people. And to give you a perfect example in Texas – in Texas we saw record voter registration turnout. But then those folks didn’t come out. It was down 6%. In Philadelphia, where it’s 70% African-American, their turnout rate was 6% down from 2020. And so when you see voter registration rally, when people are getting excited, they’re excited for the candidate. But when they start softening, is they didn’t get the economic message they needed to get out of bed, to stand three or four hours on a working wage, to say, “Am I going to vote or am I going to lose – and lose money? Or am I going to go back to work?” And there’s roughly about ten million voters that did not turn out this election, and that’s a question. And I would say that it’s also an explanation, that it’s not enough to do digital ads, and it’s not enough to do TV. You need a ground game with a consortium of network of individual groups that have done the work in 2018, in 2020, in 2022. So many groups that I’ve spoken to didn’t were not resourced as they should’ve been.
AMY WALTER:
Yeah, and the other thing that, you know, Democrats have been dining off the anti-Trump coalition now since 2017. And it has brought them success in those swing states. But you can’t – if your only message is that Trump is bad, or Trumpism, or MAGAism, and abortion, if that’s it, without other stuff underneath it, whether that is an economic message, whether that is a message saying, “Here’s how we’re going to help you on the things that you’re the most worried about,” it’s only going to get you so far. And you know, the thing that we were just talking about is the swing states, this is where Democrats did do better in part – than the national swing of the country, in some of those states that you all had pointed out earlier that shifted dramatically to the right. The reason the swing states didn’t shift as much to the right is, María Teresa’s point, which was there were actually campaigns engaging.
RAMESH PONNURU:
But that suggests, right, that the deeper problem wasn’t the campaign tactics of Harris.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Right.
RAMESH PONNURU:
It was the policy mistakes of the Biden-Harris administration, I would say particularly on immigration and inflation.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
I would say actually that you have the – you have the IRA, you have the Chip Act, all of them that will breathe and actually be able to be captured, and the – the benefits of it, under a Trump administration. And he’s going to want to say – claim them. They were all done under the Harris-Biden administration.
GARRETT HAAKE:
But Trump was able to run against Biden’s record even when Kamala Harris was at the top of the ticket –
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
That’s right.
GARRETT HAAKE:
A deeply unpopular series of wars basically, which is something we haven’t really talked about. The border, which was broken. I covered some Harris events, not a ton. She never mentioned immigration. I understand that it’s not a strong issue. But to just skip over it conceptually feels like a major loss. And you know, on inflation, which I think is going to be the thing that Trump’s actually able to do the least about, at least they were able to kind of put it in front of voters. I mean, Trump swiped the Democrats’ coalition by focusing on these sort of populist issues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we should just remind folks, they are still counting the overall votes, when you think about the – the national vote. But what about that point, María Teresa? I mean, I spoke to so many Democrats in the closing weeks who made this point that Garrett is making, which is, “Okay, talk about the fact that he’s a fascist. But you have to talk about the economy. You have to talk about reproductive rights.”
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
So I would actually say everybody got where she was on reproductive rights. That was her –
KRISTEN WELKER:
She did talk about it –
MARIA TERESA KUMAR:
That was – that was –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– but they wanted her to make it the focus. That that should be the biggest –
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
But that was the opening argument. And that’s why she won the women vote. But what she – what’s not happening, and this is what we saw for two and a half years, in all our polling, was that inflation, inflation, inflation. I mean there was never this conversation about – I mean they actually had policy. Like, this idea that we’re actually going to go after big retail folks that are basically gouging you on eggs. Make that a message, and saying, “This is part one, and let me continue part two.” And I will share with you, the frustration was that it was so – too comfortable around talking about reproductive rights and saying, “We have that.” They got that. They wanted more on – literally on inflation.
RAMESH PONNURU:
I think Democrats wildly overestimated the power of the abortion issue to drive candidate choice as opposed to referendum. And 2022 should have been a sign that that was a mistake that they were making, when you saw Republican governor after governor getting re-elected, having signed abortion bans. Democrats lost female votes between – in percentage terms from 2020 to 2024, after Dobbs. That should tell you something about how much they invested in this issue and how much it didn’t pay off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There is this narrative about over-reading the midterm results, Amy –
AMY WALTER:
Yes. Absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that they felt emboldened in a way that they should maybe not have.
AMY WALTER:
Yeah. I mean, if you could do one of those books, remember that – if any of you grew up – the choose your own adventure books. So just imagine that the page on 2022 was a typical midterm election, where an unpopular President with high inflation loses big in the House and the Senate. There would be pressure on the president, President Biden, to not run for reelection. There would be a recalibration in terms of, “What is our message on the economy?” That obviously did not happen because what they took away from it was abortion and democracy are actually the fundamental message that gets our voters to the polls.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
And then at the –
GARRETT HAAKE:
Or on a different page of that choose your own adventure, if Joe Biden, who had run as being a bridge candidate to a new generation of leadership, had stepped aside after the midterms –
AMY WALTER:
Yes. yes.
GARRETT HAAKE:
– and claimed victory, you’re looking at – and that’s one of the – to me I think you have to go almost that far back to change any one thing that would really change the outcome of this race. But a proper primary, a proper process might’ve produced either a different Democratic candidate or a stronger version of Kamala Harris, who people felt like they had a more authentic connection to. Which I think is still one of the biggest sort of candidate problems here, that voters told us over and over again, they just never really understood who Kamala Harris really was.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, María Teresa, Garrett hits the nail on the head when it comes to so much of what we are hearing from top Democrats. Nancy Pelosi saying there should’ve been an open primary because, as Garrett is saying, either Harris would’ve been stronger, or a stronger candidate would have emerged.
MARÍA TERESA KUMAR:
So had I not seen – again, for us, our true north is the voter registration. Had I not seen the rally that we saw right after her candidacy, I would say maybe. I think what they were really looking for was literally that economic message. But had she said, “The rent is too damn high,” that would’ve been enough populism to say, “You know what? You see me.” I do believe that the reason that we did not see massive turnout was people were weighing it. It’s like, “I don’t know if I should stay home, or if this is actually going to be material change.” And the other folks said, “You know what? I’m going to take my bet. Because again, I miss my check.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ramesh, is this an issue where Republicans can build on the gains by Trump? Or is Trump the only one who can expand the map in this way? And do Republicans need to in some ways do their own soul searching in this moment?
RAMESH PONNURU:
Well, winning parties rarely do any soul searching.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, fair enough. They’re celebrating, not soul searching.
RAMESH PONNURU:
But it is absolutely – it is absolutely possible that Republicans could squander the moment and the opportunity that they have. They could assume that these voters are just always going to be theirs, when in fact I think a lot of them are just giving Republicans a try because they had a negative reaction to the last four years. Whether Trump can build on that, whether he can run a less chaotic White House than he did last time, all of these are the things we’re going to be tracking over the next four years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, fantastic conversation, everyone. Thanks so much for being here. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. As we prepare to mark Veterans Day, we want to thank all those who have served. We’ll be back next week, because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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